Silber ready to move on from presidency

The following interview with Boston University chancellor John Silber was conducted on Monday, April 28 by Daily Free Press News Editor Joshua Karlin-Resnick:

DFP: Alright so I just … just sort of our end of the year traditional, interview with you so I just wanted to go over some of the stuff from this year and …

Silber: So the rules of the game is verbatim …

DFP: (mumbles)

Silber: … right?

DFP: And I request, can I get a transcript of this from your office after this after we’re done … or?

Silber: You’re gonna get another, I’ll get the [secretary]…

DFP: So I just want to start off with just some questions about you being back doing the duties of the president’s office this year. What has that been like to be back in the president’s seat for a year?

Silber: Well, it’s, it’s a hell of a lot of work. But I think it’s obviously a very exciting and a very interesting job, no doubt about that. Recruiting faculty members and recruiting and evaluating deans and administrators and making decisions that are appropriate to the operation of the university, balancing the budget, those are all time consuming and they’re somewhat difficult jobs but they have a lot of satisfaction that goes into them.

DFP: How is the job different from when you last ran the university in ’96, err, early ’90s, has it … do you think the job has changed since then?

Silber: No it hasn’t, I don’t think it has changed a lot. I think that Jon Westling did a very good job in the six years that he was doing it, I am sorry that he decided to resign because by resigning, he somewhat abruptly, then the university had to have somebody in the president’s office so they naturally the trustees naturally picked me because I have been there before…

DFP: Um hum…

Silber: As they say, ‘I have been there done that’ and so they just asked me to do it again, and there wasn’t any way I could, I could refuse reasonably without, without leaving the university in the lurch.

DFP: Sure, sure …

Silber: And, but I think I think being a college president is a very interesting and satisfying position.

DFP: Um hum …

Silber: I think a college presidency is as about as nice a toy as any grown man gets to play with.

DFP: Okay, okay. What in terms of last year have you continued to, well the first 30 years here was really a lot of innovation … lot of, sort of bringing the university to a new level. Has that been the case this year, or have you been, what sort of ways have you been trying to innovate and continue to push the university forward?

Silber: Well I think that in terms of a faculty recruitment I think that has been part of it, and I think that the purchase of the three great libraries on the Middle East and the Silk Road have added a major dimension to our library and to the possibility of developing a major center for Islamic studies, which I think is a very exciting prospect …

DFP: Is that …

Silber: … and we’re continuing to make progress in all of the science and engineering areas. And I think that in music, De Quadros, who has taken over now as the director of the School of Music, is an excellent appointment. I think he is doing a great job. Now we’ve had some, some real losses this year. The loss of John Daverio was a profound and tragic loss for the university. That was a great teacher and a great scholar no way to, no way to, there is no good news associated with that.

DFP: In terms of student issues, what are the main things you tried to work on, for students, specific for student programs?

Silber: That great, epic-making reform in the, in the guest rules.

DFP: (laughter)

Silber: You certainly noted that …

DFP: Uh huh (laughter)

Silber: That is the great accomplishment that has been made in relating to the students, except I have had a couple of very interesting meetings with students. From reading The Daily Free Press, you would never know the attitude and atmosphere at those meetings because they were very friendly meetings. There was a lot of laughter and a lot of good humor. You wouldn’t have a trace of that in the account that was given in The Daily Free Press.

DFP: So is that something you, something you have enjoyed this last year, the two meetings with …

Silber: Sure, I enjoy meeting with students. I may even join the senior breakfast.

DFP: Alright…

Silber: Depends on how it goes. If it goes well, I certainly enjoy it, and if it doesn’t go well, it’s still kind of exciting.

DFP: Alright … now in terms of, we talked to Christopher Barreca a few days ago and he said that the university … that the president search is moving along quickly but it’s probably unlikely there will be a new president by the end of the summer and for next year. And is that, you’ve said before that you’re going to serve up to two years; is that something you’re interested in doing again for next year?

Silber: No I, I’m, it’s my hope, by the way you don’t have to put in ‘ah ah ah ah’ unless you want to. If you want to be wicked, well you go ahead …

DFP: I’ll do the exact same thing many … uh …

Silber: As a matter of fact, I hope we have a new president in by next September.

DFP: Okay.

Silber: Because I’m not looking forward to continuing this. If it is necessary I’ll do it, but that is not my desire in the matter. I have the books that I want to finish, and I have other things that I need to know, you know, before I kick off.

DFP: From your impressions of the search, you’ve been involved in the search, is that something that is likely? Is there likely to be a president by August or September?

Silber: I don’t know.

DFP: Okay … how has …

Silber: I don’t know. If I knew, if I had an opinion on the subject, I’d tell you.

DFP: Okay. And you’ve, how involved have you been in that search, how long have you …

Silber: I am a member of that search committee …

DFP: Okay.

Silber: And I’m, I’m a, I’m not running the search, the search is being run to the extent that it is being run by a member of the committee. It’s likely in the hands of Earl Cooley, who calls the meetings and who sets the agendas of the meetings. And John Issacson of Issacson Miller, are the outside consultants who are assisting us in the search.

DFP: Now if there is, you’ve said before that if there is a new president, or when the new president comes in, you will offer your resignation, you’ve, you know, tender a letter?

Silber: I’ll do whatever he’d like me to do. If he wants assistance from me in any capacity, I’ll be glad to give it, and if he wants none, I’ll give him exactly that none.

DFP: Okay. And in terms of, is this, would you like to be so involved in the university if the new president says, ‘fine I’ll take your resignation’ is that, will you push to be involved in the university in some manner you know, you’ve been involved in the university for 30 years?

Silber: I’m gonna retain my faculty position, that’s for damn sure.

DFP: Okay, okay, so that’s the, okay, so not chancellor, you will offer your resignation as chancellor as well?

Silber: Well, I’ll ask him what he wants me to do.

DFP: Okay, okay.

Silber: If they get a man qualified for the job, he’s not going to worried about Silber. Silber might have to worry about him, but he wouldn’t have to worry about me.

DFP: (Laughs) Okay. Now in terms of the search process, there’s been, basically, as I understand it, we are at the end of the first phase of the search. In the sort of getting the feel for the university community, how do you think that process has gone? Do you think that the university community’s voice has been heard? And do you think the search …

Silber: Well, you’re not going to, you’re not going to elect a president. A president is appointed by the Board of Trustees. That’s their single most important responsibility. The purpose of the search committee is to not select a candidate but to evaluate candidate to see who is suitable and worthy of consideration by the trustees. The trustees wouldn’t need to have a search committee at all, but, as a matter of fact, that search committee, I think, is a very fine cross-section of the faculty and the administration of Boston University. And consequently, we are consulting the university when we consult with that committee.

DFP: Sure.

Silber: And there’s nothing further that’s required.

DFP: Okay. How important do you think the student voice and faculty voice are on that? There is one student representative on the committee, but I know there have been a number of meetings with faculty and one student meeting.

Silber: Well, there’s several faculty on that committee. There’s not just one faculty member on that committee…

DFP: Okay. Ah, how important do you think the student voice is in this process? Do you think, you know, the students matter in this search, or …?

Silber: Well, I, I, I think it’s nice to have a student there. Because that student, when you come to the end of the process, knows what went on; he knows how it’s gone. I don’t think a student contributes a great deal to it because a student doesn’t have the experience that would make his opinion, let’s say, as valuable as somebody who’s been around the academic circuit for 10 or 15 or 20 or 30 years.

DFP: Sure.

Silber: But that’s not to demean the student I think the student president has, has done a good job. He’s been very attentive, he’s asked good questions, he’s listened to and so I think that’s all he’s never tried to pontificate on a subject.

DFP: (mumble)

Silber: You know, saying, ‘well, you know, I think what we need is a, b or c,’ like that. What he has done instead is ask very good questions, and I think he’s handled himself splendidly.

DFP: Okay. And, there was a student forum, right before Spring Break, looking at, you know, asking about what students want from the president, and there were about nine people there.

Silber: Yeah, well that …

DFP: What do you think of that turnout, and …

Silber: That, I think, is the answer to your question.

DFP: Uh huh.

Silber: I think that is a recognition by students that they have very little to contribute on the subject. Otherwise there would have been two or three thousand students at that occasion where their opinion was solicited.

DFP: Okay. Alright. And in terms of the, to return to the subject of … of your year as president … how has that, I mean you point out your schedule … how has that been? Returning to that daily task of running the university, and trying to solicit donations and everything like that. What has that, how have you liked that and what have you thought about that?

Silber: Well, it’s a distraction from finishing some books and it’s a distraction from completing some sculptures that I wanted to work on … but it is interesting work, it’s a fascinating job.

DFP: Okay. I just wanted to turn to a few of the issues that have been key this semester and actually one that just was settled on Friday the, the rape investigation settlement from the DOE. What do you think that means for the university?

Silber: I think that was an excellent decision, and it showed just how well the university handles these situations.

DFP: Um hmm.

Silber: We’re not going to be intimidated by people who believe in political correctness and it having to affirm everything that is claimed, when somebody raises an objection. Sometimes people tell the truth and sometimes they don’t tell the truth. Boston University does its best to investigate every case and to find out what the truth is, as close as we can, and to make a decision that is just and fair in light of what we find out. But we’re not going to be intimidated by people who try to shake us down in the courts of law.

DFP: Okay. It’s often a pretty large student issue. I know in the Student Union elections these last two years, a rape crisis center has been brought up. As, you know, we need a rape crisis center, and I know that at a couple of student forums the issue was also raised. Do you think this ruling answers to that in any way?

Silber: Well, I think it doesn’t answer to that because it doesn’t have anything to do with it. I don’t think it has anything to do with it. But you’ve had in The Daily Free Press a letter in which a person pointed out the availability of counseling with regard to rape that’s available right outside the university, and how duplicative and expensive it would be if we tried to duplicate these services that are already available. So I don’t think that’s a real issue at all. I think that’s just an ideological issue of people who have a hobby horse they want to ride.

DFP: Okay, so you think the university provides enough services for rape victims?

Silber: I certainly do. And if we didn’t, we would do something about it. The reason we haven’t done more is because we don’t need to do more. Because it’s quite adequate. But if somebody wants to get drunk and wants to go to a party, and fool around, they can get hurt. That’s for damn sure. And it’s important for students who claim to be adults to behave in a way that is prudent and have some regard for their own safety.

DFP: Okay … okay. What kind of role do you think the university should play in protecting students from sexual assault and the effects afterward? I mean what, is that something the university something important to the university is this something that should be handled by Boston Police or other authorities, I mean what …

Silber: Well if there were a case of rape, it would be handled by the Boston Police because that would be a criminal offense and it would be handled in a criminal way. Boston University does not offer sanctuary for illegal activities by anybody.

DFP: So in terms of BU investigating those sorts of claims, what do you think is the, is that important, or is that…what role should …

Silber: Well, if a complaint is raised, it’s got to be looked into, sure. I think that’s important.

DFP: Alright, okay. Change the subject a little bit to Iraq. That was sort of a major staple of this semester and during that week in March, there were several student protests. What do you think of …

Silber: There weren’t very many, let’s get clear, there weren’t very many student protests. There were some faculty protests, there were some universities where faculty tried to organize student protests, there were some people who, in the midst of nostalgia from the sixties, tried to make this thing appear to be something like the Vietnam War.

DFP: Um hmm.

Silber: Doesn’t bear any resemblance to the Vietnam War and the overwhelming majority of American students had the good sense to recognize that and just didn’t protest.

DFP: Okay.

Silber: So you can’t talk about a big student protest; it just didn’t exist.

DFP: Well, there was more here than there have been since I’ve been here and I think in the last probably five or 10 years. There were a couple of fairly large protests out on …

Silber: They weren’t fairly large, you shoulda been here in the ’70s when there were 2,000 students out there on the Marsh Chapel. This wasn’t a large protest at all.

DFP: What did you think of the student reaction, then, to the war in Iraq. Did you think, you know, that there was enough discussion of it, do you think?

Silber: I think most of the students were very relieved that the president of the United States did what needed to be done. I think we are a lot safer now. Do you remember people predicted there would be widespread terrorist attacks if we engaged in taking down Saddam Hussein? How many were there? This has been the quietest period we’ve had. I think President Bush has informed terrorists all over the world that there’s no, there’s no immunity from this kind of activity. That the days of appeasement that were carried out through the Clinton administration and the last year of the first Bush administration is over. The first President Bush did not take Saddam Hussein out because he didn’t have the mandate of the United Nations to do it, and that’s when it should have been done. The next time it should have been donw was in 1998, when Saddam Hussein refused to allow the inspectors to do their jobs and the inspectors left Iraq. That was in clear violation of two resolutions of the United Nations and those resolutions should have been enforced, right then and there. But not with Mr. Clinton. He was too busy with country matters to worry about doing his duty as commander-in-chief. Look what he did in Mogadishu in Mogadishu, we come in and try to help, he gives ’em the wrong kind of equipment, the wrong kind of protection, the wrong, the wrong, rules of engagement, and as soon as somebody gets killed, all he does is withdraw. What did he do in response to the attack in Tanzania, the attack in Nairobi, the attack in Saudi Arabia, the attack on the Cole, and the answer is this was a series of appeasement that gave Saddam Hussein and terrorists all over the world good reason to believe that the United States is a paper tiger. And that you can attack the United States and kill United States citizens with impunity. And George Bush, our current president, has corrected that misapprehension.

DFP: Um hmm.

Silber: While also, it’s been alleged by some candidates for the presidency now, that he has betrayed our allies and betrayed the United Nations. In my opinion, just the opposite is the case. I believe that George Bush, the president, has saved the United Nations from total irrelevance, by enforcing the resolution that the United Nations weren’t prepared to enforce because of the veto of France and Germany and Russia.

DFP: Um hmm.

Silber: He has still maintained some relevance to the United Nations and said, ‘the resolutions of the United Nations still mean something.’ If the indecision and the refusal to act on the part of France, Germany and Russia had been allowed to stand, the United Nations now would be dead letter, just as the League of Nations was when they refused to act in response to the invasion of Ethiopia by Moussolini and the occupation of the Rhineland by Adolf Hitler.

DFP: Um hmm. And do you think that students agree with all of that and that’s why they’re not protesting? I mean, why do you think students are not, you know…

Silber: I don’t know, I don’t know how many students have studied the issue carefully, but I know that when I discussed this with students at our recent meeting there seemed to be some general agreement on the part of the students that were there I admit there were only about 200 students there but they seemed to agree that there was a lot of sense in what I was saying.

DFP: Okay. Now you, when you

Silber: I mean, I don’t know, I haven’t done a poll of the students…

DFP: Sure.

Silber: And if I did do a poll of the students, the first question I would begin with is asking them, ‘how much do you know about the subject?’ and ‘how much have you studied it?’ and ‘how much have you read about it?’

DFP: And do you think that’s a major issue…

Silber: Well, I think before you protest you ought to know what you’re doing.

DFP: Okay, yeah.

Silber: I think it’s strange when somebody can be an activist on an issue on which he’s totally uninformed.

DFP: Okay. Do you think that sort of represents most protests that were occurring right in mid-March….

Silber: I don’t know. I haven’t seen any intelligent statements from any of the protesting students that would indicate otherwise.

DFP: Okay. How is BU’s…obviously when you came here, there were a number of protests, this was a pretty active campus back in the early seventies

Silber: It was a pretty inactive campus when it came to studying. It’s a lot more fun to sit out there and raise hell and not study than it is to just do that silent, difficult work of mastering the courses that you’re taking.

DFP: Okay, and you think that’s

Silber: This was a lot of fun and games by people during the spring recess. This was an elevation of the panty raid to some noble purpose. Now, the reason it’s so faked up, is, Boston University did not set United States foreign policy, Boston University did not get us into Vietnam, Boston University couldn’t get us out of Vietnam. If they wanted to protest, the way to do it was to go down and see Senator Kennedy, or see other members of the Congress, or go down to Washington and buttonhole the Congressmen and talk to the people who could do something about it. There wasn’t anything that Boston University could do about it. And what did they think they were doing when they tried to keep people from going to class, or tried to keep people from meeting with recruiters? As I said to one group of students, I said, ‘you may like having the Sixth Fleet in the Mediterreanean to protect Israel, but you don’t want to allow the recruitment of the Navy and the Marines. So you better make up your mind how you’re gonna protect Israel, for example, if you don’t want to support the military that has to do that defending?’

DFP: Um hmm.

Silber: I didn’t find anyone who thought this issue through. Students complain about police brutality we used videotapes when the police came on campus to make sure there was no police brutality. And the one instance of a student getting bit by a dog was a student who slapped a German Shepard dog in the mouth. Now if you want to get bit, that’s a damn good way to arrange it. But, I don’t think there was any high-minded purpose there. Howard Zinn and a group of students tried to tear up a meeting of the economics department that had a series on ‘Quo Vadis Latin America’ and there were six former presidents of, as I recall, of Latin American countries Roberto Campos any number of really distinguished Latin Americans were there. And they tried to bust it up, claiming that we were trying to raise a million dollars for some nefarious purpose in South America. All of that is a total lie, a total manufacture, that had nothing to do with the truth, and those students were in there simply to break up a meeting and to deny First Amendment rights to the department. And consequently we called the police and arrested them.

DFP: So do you think the major change in the university is that students are more serious about their studies now, or what, what is…

Silber: I think they’re a lot more serious about their studies. I think they’re also aware that we all face a level of contingency that’s been characteristic in Israel for a long time but that is new to the United States.

DFP: Okay. Just to move on to…

Silber: Also, I think the decline in the stock market got their attention. They thought well maybe we’re gonna have to work for a living instead of just clip coupons.

DFP: Okay. Alright. To change subjects a little bit here to just more student direction, student government at BU. Now, you’ve had some disagreements with student governments in the past. At this point, it seems like the students governments get along fine with the administration but not so well with themselves. What do you think that does for student life at BU?

Silber: I don’t think it hurts it at all. The thing is, there is a government that affects students. It is the municipal government in Boston, it’s the state government in Massachusetts, it’s the United States government. Most of the students, by the time they get to be juniors, are voting age.

DFP: Um hmm.

Silber: When I first came here, I said, you know, ‘why don’t you get seriously interested in real politics instead of in play-like politics?’ We’ll bring registration booths to the campus so that you can register to vote. If 5000 students at Boston voted in the Boston City Council election, they’d probably control the election. They’d have tremendous effect on the outcome of that election. They could affect the election of the mayor. They could have some influence on the election of a Congressman.

DFP: Um-hmmm.

Silber: But the opportunity out there, I don’t think we had 20 or 30 registrations.

DFP: Okay. So do you think, what is the purpose do you think student government is important?

Silber: I think student government, if you really want to say it, it’s not the way you govern students, it is a social, an academic and sports committee that tries to decide on ways to address issues that add to the amusement and enjoyment of students. And it does another thing. It can spot serious problems that students have. I think the student concern about the guest rules was very useful, it was highly constructive. When they address issues that concern the students, where students know the most about it because they’re the most directly involved, I think the student government provides an excellent service. But they’re not there to govern the university.

DFP: Sure. When you know, this semester especially, there have been a lot of squabbles and a few resignations and things like that…How does that reflect on the student body to you, personally?

Silber: I think that’s just fine. I think it just shows what it’s like to grow up and see what the relationships between politicians is like. They don’t often keep…sometimes they do not keep their word. Sometimes they change their minds. Sometimes they double-cross. Students in student government find out all these things about students. That’s not a bad thing, it’s a good thing. Let ’em find it in a way that doesn’t really hurt them.

DFP: So you think it’s a useful exercise?

Silber: Sure, why not?

DFP: Okay.

Silber: It doesn’t interest most people. The last group that won the election claimed that they had a mandate they had a mandate of a tiny minority.

DFP: (mild laughter)

Silber: A tiny minority bothered to vote.

DFP: Okay, okay.

Silber: See, if there was a real interest in student government at Boston University, when it comes times for an election, there’d be maybe 12, 15 thousand votes cast. How many votes were cast last time?

DFP: Do you think that’s just a general lack of student interest in this student government?

Silber: No…I’ve been in a lot of universities, I never saw any great interest in it anywhere. It’s of interest in it to the people who run for office, and their friends. It’s usually a very tiny minority.

DFP: Okay. And what does that say about the purpose of student government in general?

Silber: Well, it’s not governing the students.

DFP: Sure.

Silber: And that’s why it’s not important to a lot of students. But that doesn’t mean it’s not useful. It provides useful experience. For example, when I was an undergraduate, I ran for the presidency of the student body at the University of Texas I didn’t get elected, I came in second. But then I got elected to the Speaker of the House. We had a Speaker of the House..oh, we played around and we passed resolutions and I learned a heck of a lot about parliamentary law. And that’s stood me in good stead ever since. I learned Robert’s Rules of Order inside and out. And I knew when I was dealing with a substantive motion and when I was dealing with a procedural motion, and when a vote of question, and when a vote on the question was relevant, how many votes it took to turn off debate and all of those good things. What were the conditions of a point of order, what were the conditions of a personal point of privilege. Now that was very useful to me. I’ve been able to use it since then when I’m sharing a meeting with the faculty assembly.

DFP: Uh huh.

Silber: So I don’t think student government’s a bad thing, by any means. I think the students who want to participate in it learn something from it. I learned something from running for office and losing being the Speaker of the House, and seeing how I could influence things from that position. It turned out that I could do about as much in that position as the president could. It turned out I could make it impossible for the president to do anything that he wanted to do if he didn’t want to cooperate.

DFP: Ha.

Silber: Those are interesting things to learn.

DFP: Um hmm. To turn to Massachusetts state politics, there have been three straight Republican governors and really, there really hasn’t been a Democratic alternative since you ran for governor in 1990. What, what do you think is the future of the Massachusetts Democratic Party? What do you think, you know, where is the Massachusetts Democratic Party….

Silber: Well, alright…No party is good enough to be able to rule without oppostion. I think one of the most serious criticisms you can level against Mr. Weld, and Mr. Cellucci and Jane Swift is it did nothing to build a Republican Party. I believe that Governor Romney is now trying to do something about it. He’s trying to find candidates who will run for the legislature. And that’s what’s got to be done. We need a stronger Republican Party in this state I’m a Democrat, and I would like to see the Democrats hold their majority. But I don’t like the situation in which we have a one-party state, and that’s all we’ve got here. I was fighting against a one-party state in Texas. Because what it really was was a conservative Democratic Party, which was almost indistinguishable from a Republican Party, so when Texas changed from being Democratic to being Republican, it was a very small change.

DFP: (laughter)

Silber: Because the Democratic Party that was in charge was a very conservative Democratic Party.

DFP: Sure.

Silber: And there was no really strong opposition to it. I like having a two-party state.

DFP: Okay. What do you think about the Democratic Party itself? Do you think there are some strong things the state party stands on, or is this…

Silber: Well, I think Tom Finneran is one of the most dedicated and intelligent public servants I have ever known. I have very high regard for him. I think Travalgini is a very good man. He hasn’t been in office long enough as president of the Senate to know how effective he’s going to be, but my guess is, he’s going to be very effective. I think you’ve got the leadership in both House and the Senate is very strong.

DFP: Um kay.

Silber: But if you take the legislature as a whole, 50 years ago, that legislature had an average age that is probably 20 years greater than it is today, and the people who were in the legislature were successful businessmen, some doctors, some small businessman, some large representatives of corporations…so you had people with real expertise. Right now there are too many lawyers in the legislature; they get out of law school and if they’re not too busy if their law practice hasn’t taken off too much then they go to the legislature and they have a ret